What to do...what to do...

[ngkent]

Ok here's my problem that I thought I would share with the wise poker players of the world...

ngkent gets job offer from another investment management firm doing international equities...ngkent signs offer letter and is ready to go...then..current investment management firm gives counter-offer +$20,000 that other job and more growth opportunities in leveraged finance (high yield, bank debt)...now...

a) What do I do? The international equities may be more exciting / fast paced but on the other hand current company is good, giving me more money, and offering growth potential...

b) Does signing offer letter really bind me?

c) Will I pingeon hole myself in leveraged financed if i get in or do you think that at such a young age (23) I'll be able to change in the future...

Thanks in advance!

[cardcounter0]

Take the other offer.

If your current company is willing to pay you more now that you are going to leave --

Why didn't they pay you more in the first place?
Answer: They were screwing you.

Now are you going to trust all these promises about the future from a bunch of people who screwed you?

You have shown disloyality. You are a marked man. They are willing to pay you a little more now, but as soon as you can be replaced, you are GONE.

Why would they make all these long term commitments and promises? Your actions have already shown them that as soon as a better offer comes down the road, you are jumping ship. Answer: They are lying.

[ngkent]

I think they are paying me more because they want me to stay that bad...not to toot the ole' horn...but I was #1 in my analyst class last year...

[cardcounter0]

I guess my first answer was to question (A)

(B) No, you are not bound. You didn't actually get any cash from them did you?

(C) At 23, you will probably change ENTIRE careers at least twice before you get dirt kicked on you in your grave. Don't worry about being pigeonholed, that only happens to actors.

[cardcounter0]

Next year some one else will be #1 in his class.

Again, why would they want some one to stay who is willing to leave every time a better offer comes down the pike? Doesn't that commit them to making sure they are always the highest bidder? What idiot would put themselves in that position?

Re-read my first post. You are working for idiots or they are lying to you. Take the other offer. Why do you want to work for lying idiots?

[Ulysses]

Everyone I know in these fields who is very good at what they do has been able to move pretty fluidly through hedge funds, I-banks, equities trading, private equity firms, etc. I don't think you have much risk of getting pigeonholed. My personal philosophy in situations like this is that if I signed an offer letter, that's where I'm going to go. Of course, I'd only sign that offer letter in the first place if I thought it was a good opportunity. If for some reason I signed one that was absolutely horrible, perhaps I'd reconsider breaking my word, but that doesn't seem to be the case in your situation.

Go to the new firm. Work there for a couple of years. If you're that good and want to come back and do the type of work your current firm will enable you to do, they'll take you back and you'll end up making a lot more than you would have by staying there in the first place.

[tyfromm]

The clear answer is to play poker full time, you don't need either of those jobs.

[cardcounter0]

Agree. Seen that one happen a lot. Leave and come back for even more. (Just be prepared to leave again.)

[Ulysses]

This is just wrong. Top guys in many fields get recruited aggressively by other companies. It is standard practice to do things like counter offers to retain top performers.

[cardcounter0]

True. Recruitment and Counter Offers happen a lot.

But when someone actually goes out and signs an offer, that is a different story, rather than just discussing it with current employer and getting a bonus or raise.

[ngkent]

What about staying with my current employer for another year and then moving...Another thing I'm worried about is that I only have one year of experience working here...I don't want to be that guy with the ping-pong resume...There's a lot of positives one way or another...

[cardcounter0]

That is another option, you get the raise and another years experience. Just don't plan on leaving to the other firm, you have signed an offer and backed out at the last minute, they probably won't be as eager to deal with you in the future.

[Utah]

Interesting.

Since you are 23 Ill give you the same advice my dad gave me. Forget the money completely. Take the job that gives you the best long term potential on the path you want to go. If you dont know the path then take the job that offers the most development opportunties. The money today, which may seem like a boatload, is probably small in comparison to what you will make in 10 to 15 years.

It is very easy to piss someone off in a situation like this. Be very careful and firm in how you act. There is a big potential to burn bridges and the world is small.

a)only you can decide this. However, it sounds like you are a rising star at this firm and they are willing to take care of you, which says a lot. There is risk in switching. I was in a similar situation when I got my first 6 figure offer from big 5 consulting. It was a big jump in pay and it sounded exciting. However, I worked for a great company at the time (SAP) and I was a rising star. My company counter offered and matched. I still said no and they upped their offer again and I still said no. Well, I completely pissed off my mentor who groomed me and the company vowed never ever to hire me back. I went to Big 5 and it sucked and I quickly missed my old job. Just be careful

Question - given your field - are you going to have to go to Business School and is this a short term proposition? Or are you on the trading side?

b) No, the letter doesnt bind you at all. However, it affects your reputation. Realize, if the market crashed and the other business didnt need you they would resind it in a flash. Do whats right for you. (btw - I have had a letter recinded before when a partner of a firm left).

c) Dont worry in the least about pingeon holing yourself. You are WAY too young to worry about that. Worse comes to worse, B School always gives you a free pass into something else.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
But when someone actually goes out and signs an offer, that is a different story, rather than just discussing it with current employer and getting a bonus or raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. However, even that is standard practice in some fields. Me, personally, I don't believe in it and if I'm gonna sign, I'm gonna go. But in some companies, this is just the way the dance goes.

[Utah]

I am sorry, but this is simply terrible advice.

They pay you more because they have too. Duke paid Coach K more after the Lakers offer. It doesnt mean he was being screwed at all.

You have shown disloyality. You are a marked man.
You have not shown disloyality if you acted properly. Your bosses know how the game works. You just need to act appropriately and you are fine.

Why would they make all these long term commitments and promises? Your actions have already shown them that as soon as a better offer comes down the road, you are jumping ship. Answer: They are lying.
Way off. At the end of the day, it will all come down to your relationships. You need to form a good relationship with your bosses now regardless if you leave or stay as you likely will run into them again. If your bosses are showing a genuine desire to form a strong and long term relationship with you then thats golden.

[Utah]

But when someone actually goes out and signs an offer, that is a different story, rather than just discussing it with current employer and getting a bonus or raise.

Even though I hate your other advice, I strongly agree with this. You always talk to your current bosses out of respect for them before you sign - even if there is zero chance you will take a counter offer. Even if you hate your bosses. Its a slap in the face to do otherwise.

However, in this case the employee is 23 and he is likely to get some slack here.

[ngkent]

I am a newbie at all this /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[cardcounter0]

This was the reason for my "marked man" and "disloyal" remarks.

You don't think the Coach actually signed something from the Lakers and then got the Duke offer do you? He probably made Duke aware of what was going on, first thing.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
What about staying with my current employer for another year and then moving...Another thing I'm worried about is that I only have one year of experience working here...I don't want to be that guy with the ping-pong resume...There's a lot of positives one way or another...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you either are going to be ping-pong resume guy or sign an offer letter and reneg guy. The time to worry about ping-pong resume was before signing the offer letter to leave. I'd rather be ping-pong resume guy if I had to pick. Just stay at the next firm for a little longer.

[cardcounter0]

I think El Diablo has a good point.

Especially in your field. What good is a trader if you can't trust his word? If he signs a contract and backs out?

I want this guy handling my money?

[Utah]

Coach K is at a way different spot in his career.

If an outstanding 23 year old working for me signed something before talking to me I would probably correct him for his own sake. But certainly, I would not think of him as disloyal.

I shudder to think of the things I did as a 23 year old (like giving unsolicited advice to the Vice Chairman of Target Corp on how he can improve his speeches. He was too stunned to kill me I think).

[cardcounter0]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*GASP* You mean 23 year olds don't know everything about life and how to live it?

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif when i say i accept an offer..

i have accepted an offer..

and that is that..

if your word is no good..

what are you really worth...

to yourself...

it is hard to live with a liar; particularly

when that person....

is youself...

gl /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[ericd]

Here's my take on your options:

1. Stay - This is the choice the majority of people make. Very few people would look down at you since they would follow the money too. However, if you're getting 20k counters now, I'd bet in 10 years that won't even account for the sales tax on some luxury toy you could afford to buy.

2. Leave - You gave your word. Explain that to your current boss. See how your boss reacts. If your boss tries to help you rationalize it (probably too young to know how the world really does things) for you, then don't let the door hit you in the butt. You don't need people like that long term.

Finding people you can trust (and in turn trust you) is often overlooked. Keep in mind that you can't truly judge people until tough times occur. Then you'll see who only watches out for themself.

Good Luck,

Eric

[MMMMMM]

Get an agent, like a sports star;-) Well, maybe in a few more years (as long as you stay hot stuff in your field);-)