Liberal Conservative Left Right, what do those labels mean anyway?

[natedogg]

What is the difference between "conservative" and "right"?
What is the difference between "liberal" and "left".

I've always considered "liberal" to mean generally permissive, especially with social mores and laws about them. Liberals smoke pot, sleep around, "embrace diversity", vociferously promote gay rights, etc. etc.

To me "left" is more about social programs and engineering, creating policies to "make our society better" because that is government's role. Also, the left pretty much hates the rich as far as I can tell, whereas the liberals often ARE the rich.

Conservative has always been closely tied to "religious" for me. They hate atheists and the ACLU. Conservatives want to govern your behaviour not for your own good, but because they it's "immoral" if you do coke and see hookers and have abortions. Whereas the left wants to outlaw coke for the benefit of society. They outlaw prostitution because it is exploitation not because it's inherently immoral to screw strangers.

That leaves the "right". As far as I can tell, "the right" is the folks who run the country from behind closed doors, run oil companies, and are really pro-war. They used to be the rabid anti-communists but now they are zionists.

They fight environmental regulations, they don't believe global warming is real, they hate big government except when it is passing laws to hinder unions or spend money on more nuclear bombs.

These are impressions I get from the media and other outlets about these terms. Seriously. I know they are caricatures but that's what I see in news, commercials, and propoganda. Is it accurate?

natedogg

[John Cole]

Yes, it is accurate. Now if I can only get a few of my social engineering programs initiated. . . .

[Phat Mack]

Liberals want to go forward to a world that will never be, conservatives want to back to a world that never was.

[ACPlayer]

.

[ericd]

It is interesting how they flip flop on certain issues over time. Prior to WWII, the conservatives were for "America First", an isolationist faction. FDR, a liberal, used every means possible to do end runs around Congress (Lend/Lease) to provide some aid to Churchhill. He also (FDR) supported extending the draft. The Liberals won by 1 vote.

[dsm]

The Dennis Prager Test:

"Ask a person, "Which do you believe determines behavior more, economics or values?" If he believes poverty causes crime, if he believes that the amount of murder and rape in America is a result of poverty, he is a liberal. If he believes it is the result of a lack of conscience, not a lack of money, he is not a liberal. It is literally that simple."

-dsm

[John Cole]

Another test: look to see whether or not (and I'm having a bit of fun here with what I'll say next) people analyze complex issues through either/or questions and answers. My answer to Prager's question is "Elves!" (Five points for giving the correct source.)

[arx]

FWIW, the terms left and right were originally created in the 18th century just to define the¨"location" of the different groups in the Parliament (not 100% sure, but I think it was in France).

[MMMMMM]

Good depiction IMO.

According to this: I'm a sort of Liberal:

*I don't smoke pot, but believe others should be allowed to.

*I don't sleep around, but believe others should be allowed to.

*I embrace diversity, but don't believe diversity should be legislated or forced.

*I don't promote gay rights, but believe others should be allowed to. I don't deny gay rights either.

I don't fit anything on the Left because I simply don't believe government's role (at least federal government's role) should be to create policies to make our society better. I believe federal government's role should be much more limited than that. Local or state governments may pass laws to "make society better". At least that way you get a choice: move to another state if you prefer other laws (or fewer laws).

When the federal government passes social engineering laws, there is no escaping from it. That is evil and that is why I think the federal government's role should be more limited than it is today. For those who think it isn't evil, just because the laws passed are laws of which you happen approve: what if the laws passed were laws of which you greatly disapprove? There must be somewhere to escape from too much meddling--or from creeping fascism. Keep the Federal government tied closely to the Constititution and Bill of Rights and let the States worry about the rest. Then pick your State wisely.

*I don't really fit anything on the Right because I don't run the country at all and am not a Zionist. My views on war are situational. Some decades I have seen no reason for war; more recently, I have seen reason. I am very concerned about the environment.

*I don't fit the Conservative description because I don't want to legislate anything for "their own good" or to prevent "immorality".

Why can't everybody be sensible like me??? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gamblor]

They used to be the rabid anti-communists but now they are zionists.

In general:

The Christians in the US like the Zionists because they think that when all the Jews return to Israel (ingathering of the exiles) and convert to Christianity, Jesus will come back.

The conservatives support Israel for it's ability to act on the front lines in the "clash of civilizations" (read Huntington).

The right supports Israel because of its democratic character.

The liberals hate Israel because they believe Israel is "oppressing" Palestinians, denying them basic human rights (while other liberals love Israel for the freedoms and human rights offered to its citizens)

The left hates Israel because it has American support and is "rich" in comparison to the "poor" Palestinians.

Essentially, the conservatives and the right analyze Israel in the context of the world and its surroundings, while the left and liberals prefer to narrow down the conflict between the Palestinian Arabs and the Israelis.

FWIW, Early Zionists dreamed of a socialist country (in Ben-Gurion's words: Mamlachtiyut, or "stateness", meaning the State would create a society rather than allowing individuals to create their own society). The Israeli Labour party is founded on socialist principles and the power of the worker to cultivate the land. The most powerful organization in Israel is the Histradrut, a labour union that represents more than half the employed workers in the country.

The current administration, run by the Likud party and Finance Minister Benyamin Netanyahu, have made great efforts to drive the state towards capitalism and free markets, privatizing major utilities. They're considered a "right-wing" party.

In reality, labels like left or right, conservative or liberal, imply a sheepdom, where everyone just follows one of two ideologies, when in fact, each policy decision should be judged independently, on it's own merit, to determine the best path.

[nicky g]

"The right supports Israel because of its democratic character rather than the dictatorships of the Arab world."

maybe some of it. But the right has repeatedly shown itself happy to support dictatorships and oppose democratically elected governments based on economic policy and corporate interests. I would say much of the right would now support dictaroships ahead of democratically electeed Islamist govenments.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
The Christians in the US like the Zionists because they think that when all the Jews return to Israel (ingathering of the exiles) and convert to Christianity, Jesus will come back.

[/ QUOTE ]
Asinine. The 5 christians in the US who might believe this are asinine just as the statement that this is the belief of "Christians in the US" is asinine.

[nicky g]

"The Christians" is obviously wrong. But there are a lot more than five fundamentalist Christians who really do believe this - or at least say they do. The followers of Pat Roberts and so on, I believe.

[elwoodblues]

You're probably right. I'll amend it to 6. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nicky g]

Here's an article on the phenomenon:

Meet the new Zionists (http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,820528,00.html)

[andyfox]

Most things are literally simple for Mr. Prager. That's why he's a conservative.

[Sloats]

An interesting interpretation of Left and Right. (http://www.politicalcompass.org/)

[Gamblor]

By Christians I mean fundamentalist evangelical Christians.

Other fundamentalists can't stand the Jews either way, and the rest of the Christians have opinions predicated on their political beliefs outside Christianity.

[elwoodblues]

Point taken.

Huge difference between saying Christians and Fundamentalist Evangelical Christians.

[Gamblor]

Huge difference between saying Christians and Fundamentalist Evangelical Christians.

Agreed.

[dsm]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having a bit of fun here... look to see whether or not people analyze complex issues

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, "complex issues," good one. John, you must constantly have your students in stitches.

Regards, dsm

[John Cole]

Sorry. See "Mending Wall" by Robert Frost.

[Zeno]

Useful links to answer your questions

Liberialism (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberalism/)


Conservatism (http://www.bartleby.com/65/co/conservatsm.html)

Related links are embedded in the Conservatism article. The article on Liberialism is quite long and involved as it covers both the political and philosophical aspects of this ideology.

The best way to look at this is as a type of either/or logic. Either you are smart and a consevative or you are not-so-smart and a liberal. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thank you John Cole. I could not resist. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

-Zeno

[dsm]

Lol, I guess I was thrown off by your creative addition of an exclamation point.

"Elves!"

[John Cole]

And I've already used up my quota for the year, but that's how I would have to answer Prager.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
An interesting interpretation of Left and Right. (http://www.politicalcompass.org/)

[/ QUOTE ]
The questions on Political Compass are quite unabashedly loaded/skewed. It's a good idea and quite true that it's not fair to just say right/left, but they need to refine their questions.