15-30 in Detroit. Should I have lost less?

[flytrap]

tight passive 15-30 game in Detroit. I'm dealt J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the cutoff. UTG limps, one other limper before me, so I limp, and the SB and BB are both in. Flop comes K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG checks, other limper bets, and I raise because I'm 90%sure my hand is good at this point and I want the bigger spades to pay to outdraw me. the SB cold-calls and the original better folds. The SB has been known to slowplay all the way to the river. The turn is the beautiful 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif so I bet and the SB calls. The river is the A /images/graemlins/club.gif and the SB comes out betting. I put him on the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif with a pair, and thought he now made two pair. I raise, and he 3-bets. I call and he shows me A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif I don't think I can fold at any point, but should I have lost less money?

[SpicyF]

You should have lost more, not less. So be happy with only loosing a small amount.

[Jonny]

fold this trash preflop.

[TXTiger]

I think you played it well.

[Enon]

[ QUOTE ]
tight passive 15-30 game in Detroit. I'm dealt J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the cutoff. UTG limps, one other limper before me, so I limp, and the SB and BB are both in. Flop comes K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG checks, other limper bets, and I raise because I'm 90%sure my hand is good at this point and I want the bigger spades to pay to outdraw me. the SB cold-calls and the original better folds. The SB has been known to slowplay all the way to the river. The turn is the beautiful 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif so I bet and the SB calls. The river is the A /images/graemlins/club.gif and the SB comes out betting. I put him on the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif with a pair, and thought he now made two pair. I raise, and he 3-bets. I call and he shows me A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif I don't think I can fold at any point, but should I have lost less money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine not capping this river, but if you say you had a good read on him from playing with him in the past, then only you can know whether this was the right play to not cap the river.

[flytrap]

Enon-Since this was a live game, in Detroit there is no cap heads up, so the threat of 5 bets was the reason I didn't cap. The presence of a third player I knew I had beat may have lead me to cap it.

[flytrap]

Johhny-You say to fold J9s in a tight passive game. Can you give me your reasoning for this?

[Saborion]

J9s trash in the CO after 2 limpers?

[Analyst]

[ QUOTE ]
fold this trash preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold a decent suited one-gapper in an unraised pot, with likely 4- or 5-way action and you're in either the best or second best position? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Heck, in my last session J9s was literally the best hand I saw in 2+ hours of play.

[steveyz]

Seems fine to me. I don't see how you could lose any less.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Johhny-You say to fold J9s in a tight passive game. Can you give me your reasoning for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

listen to nykenny instead, call btf.

[elysium]

hi flytrap
this sounds like a tight/ good game. you shouldn't be calling with J9s in this type game. if it was tight/ passive, which would be weak/ tight, the call would then be o.k., but then you have problems with the river raise. the fact that you raise the river tells me that you think you have something other than weak/ passive game conditions here. also, you've got to give that opponent credit for really putting a move on you. it could also be that he was waiting until the board could no longer pair, but when he sudden reverses like that, you must also consider that he might be highly experienced. maybe not. this is what you look for though.

[China Willy]

If by "less" you mean "more" ... then the answer is yes.

-CW

[ike]

this is a preflop call and its not close. you may or may not be able to beat the rake if you're routinely making folds like this preflop but you're definetly leaving a lot of money on the table.

[ike]

where are people getting the idea that you muck j9s here? hell, 97s seems like a pretty routine call with good position behind two limpers unless i particularly fear these players.

[Ulysses]

Who is this "ike" ? El Diablo likes his style.

[astroglide]

el diablo is an off-the-beaten-path-higher-limit-player handjobber

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
el diablo is an off-the-beaten-path-higher-limit-player handjobber

[/ QUOTE ]

Look astro, I already told you. No handjobs for you. Sorry.

[Noo Yawk]

I'll over post(is this a phrase?!) and punctuate the point that this is a routine call preflop, especialy in a passive game. I might even raise this every now and again if I think I'll get the button and a free look at the turn if the players are the type to check to the raiser.

[elysium]

hi noo
if the game is passive, the call is fine. after reading the post, however, although the poster says that the game is passive, he also says tight. so, one then reads a little deeper into the game than usual, and tends to reevaluate its description. the fact that he raises a weak/ passive sudden reverse....well.

no noo, no. the poster is dropping 3 to 5 hundred night in this one, but this is the best game he can find. did you hear that noo? more. this is the more game he can find? wait, i think i know what he means.

often, the action in a hand gives a clearer description of the game conditions than does the poster, so much so that often, you can completely dismiss the poster's characterization of game type and field conditions, and substitute in their place, the text of the post itself, which is rendering a clearer and more telling description of what is actually going on. frequently, as ones post reading skills improve after a while, the post gives details providing additional revelations about such topics as the likely hobbies of a given poster, estimates of his probable investment interests, marital history, and even his likely favorite movies, books, sports, and snacks.

when not too tired or sleepy, and reading into a post at optimum depth, a post often whispers out additional extraneous information the unwary poster included within his post, and at an even lesser degree of relevancy; tennis shoe level info.

other times, the post will have pertinent information unknowingly included by the poster. this is helpful when the post whispers out the poster's true seating position in the hand, and his actual starting cards that he really entered into the fray with, which gives a much better read of his true chances, and how much he's actually dropping in the game. this is helpful when the poster unawareingly provides whisper about what he thinks are his chances, and how much he thinks he is dropping.

here, in this hand, the poster is dropping more than 3 to 5 hundred a night in this game, as per his whispering post. it could be worse though, because he rates his chances in the game as being higher than they actually are. he thinks he's a 60-40 dog. i have his chance in this game running neck and neck with the chance of a martha stewart guilty plea. he and martha are pick em.

no noo, no. the kid did have the J9s in this one. he screens well on his starters for veracity, but he flunks his game conditions screening. this is a tight/ solid game, and he's in there against solid regulars. he likes his J9s, but his opponents like his entering in with it....less or more post? 'more'. did you hear that noo? that's a post whispered 'more'.