Who Was Better Larry or Magic?

[adios]

I think Larry was but man it's hard for me to say that. Larry was better from the perimiter and they seem close to me in most other skills.

[Utah]

As players it is hard to say. As human beings, they both stunk.

[Toro]

I used to be a huge Celtics fan before they totally screwed up the franchise and I absolutely adored Larry Bird and his game but I have to say Magic was better.

Magic's rookie season, Jabbar got hurt in the finals and the Lakers had to use Magic at center. They won. The man was a freak of nature. At 6' 9" and have the ball handling skills was just amazing.

His only weakness, if he had one, was that he was not a great outside shooter. But in the clutch, if they needed a hoop he could hit from anywhere.

[MMMMMM]

Those were some games back then;-)--and I'm not even a sports fan!

I don't know for sure who was better but Bird sure was cool under pressure.

If I had to guess (and a very uninformed guess it is) I would say at least Magic probably wasn't better than Bird but he very well could have been his equal.

[andyfox]

Most of us west coasters favor MAGIC; the easterners, Bird.

I think Magic was the 3rd greatest player of all-time, behind Wilt and MJ. Dr. J. said Magic was the only guy he ever saw who could be in complete control of the entire game and only score four points.

[Toro]

Your post has reminded me how thouroughly great pro basketball was to watch back when they were playing. And now I can't keep it on for more than a couple of minutes as the game has totally deteriorated.

This is a paradox because the players are definitely more athletic now than 20 years ago. It's all dunks and 3 point shots now and the scoring is way down. These are my suggestions for improving the game.

1. Defense: Only allow man to man as it used to be.

2. 3 point shot: Eliminate it. It didn't detract from the game when Bird and Magic played because there weren't a lot of players that shot the 3. It wasn't abused. Now you have Centers and Power Forwards out there launching them up. Walker for the Celtics, a prime example. When he broke into the league he was a superb low post player, then his game degenerated to the 3 point shot. Many teams actually work the ball in and then kick it out for the long 3-ridiculous way to play the game.

3. High School Players: Too many of them. And two many college freshmen and sophmores coming out early. Don't have the answer on how to control it because of the legalities but it's ruining the game.

[scotnt73]

Id have to say magic. Magic was the greatest point guard of all time. Larry Bird was the greatest shooter and had the most heart in my opinion.

[WC64]

I think Larry Bird is better but I am from Indiana lol

[Jimbo]

I actually preferred Moe although Curly is a close 2nd. Larry is a distant third and I don't remember this Magic you are talking about unless you mean David Copperfield! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jimbo

[andyfox]

Curly was the best, and it's not close. Bald men agree.

When I was in college, we had a closed circuit TV set-up in a dormitory. We had a talk show and somebody got Moe Howard to come down. He was old and this was the first time he had been seen in "public" without his Moe haircut. I don't remember what all he had to say, but he was talkative, I remember that.

Your hero, Ed Asner, also came down. He wasn't very political then, but he was strange: he came with a cat, which he didn't let go of the whole night. I also remember it was quite warm the night he was there, but he wore a wool turtle neck and wool sport coat.

I have no idea why I'm tell you, and everyone else, all this.

[MMMMMM]

Curly was far and way the best. Joe was far and away the worst. The rest were somewhere in the middle;-)

[John Cole]

Andy,

Seems like we can disagree about nearly everything here, and some of the arguments have the sort of feel as the debate over which is the greatest ocean, the Atlantic or the Pacific, in Hannah and Her Sisters. Yet, on the topic of Curly, I'd expect unanimity.

[Clarkmeister]

Magic. I'm surprised there's even much debate on it.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
Magic. I'm surprised there's even much debate on it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I'll bite. Stats seem to be close to me:

Magic

G == 906
FG% == .520
3PFG% == .303
FT% == .848
Rebs == 6,559
RPG == 7.2
Asts == 10,141
APG == 11.2
Stls == 1,742
Blks == 374
Pts == 17,707
PPG == 19.9

Bird

G == 897
FG% == .496
3PFG% == .376
FT% == .886
Rebs == 8,974
RPG == 10.0
Asts == 5,695
APG == 6.3
Stls == 1,556
Blks == 755
Pts == 21,781
PPG == 24.3

Magic played on 5 NBA champions while Bird played on 3. I think I could make a decent case for Magic having a bettor supporting cast.

[Clarkmeister]

I'd take Bird's starting cast in a heartbeat.

Look at it like this. Which team scares you more:

Ainge
Dennis Johnson
Magic Johnson
McHale
Parish

or
Cooper
Bird
Scott
Worthy
Old Kareem

To me, switching them like that makes it easier for me to see who I would have wanted.

At the end of the day, Magic could play any position and do anything needed to win. I'm with Andy that he's the 3rd greatest ever. I'd put Larry Legend abound 7th. I don't think the gap is huge, but I do think it's larger than a hair.

[mikeyvegas]

[ QUOTE ]
"Bird would be just another player in the NBA if he was black."

[/ QUOTE ]- Isiah Thomas

Kidding aside, I think you have to take Magic over Bird although I'm not convinced Magic would have made the Celtics any better if the two had switched teams. Magic(showtime) and Bird(Hall of Fame frontline) were perfect fits for their respective teams. The reason I take Magic is that he was basically a freak playing the point. It was unfair that every night he had at least 6" and 40lbs. on whoever would have been guarding him. And as good a passer as Bird was, the way Magic could run a team in transistion was increadible. I will say Bird was one of the greatest pure shooters that I've ever seen play the game.

[DanS]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with Andy that he's the 3rd greatest ever. I'd put Larry Legend abound 7th. I don't think the gap is huge, but I do think it's larger than a hair.

[/ QUOTE ]

When it comes to most talented, gifted, or dominant, sure, stick Wilt right up there.

You said 'greatness.' I think that the more important stat than "50 ppg for a season" in defining greatness is "main cog on *ten* world championship teams." Plus Russell was a better person, IMO.

Dan

P.S. I'm in Vegas July 15-26. Will you slum in the 15 or 20 with me for a bit?

[andyfox]

Yogi Berra was a main cog on ten world championship teams, "the" main cog on most of them. Was he a greater player than, say, Willle Mays?

[DanS]

[ QUOTE ]
Yogi Berra was a main cog on ten world championship teams, "the" main cog on most of them. Was he a greater player than, say, Willle Mays?

[/ QUOTE ]

Great point, Andy. I just get frustrated (as a very biased Celts fan) when people get all Wilt-happy and neglect any mention of Russell... it's kind of like the 'what constitutes a baseball MVP' argument: stats, or value to a team.

Dan

[adios]

FWIW I think Kareem was the best center of all time.

[andyfox]

It's probably not as good a point as I made it out to be, since each individual player is much more important on a basketball team than on a baseball team. But there is certainly something to be said for winning. When they asked Casey how it is that he couldn't do sh*t with his other teams but when he came to the Yankees he won, won won, he said he never played a key game without "my man." And he meant Berra.

Allen Barra's got a good article in his first book comparing Wilt and Russell. I was glad to see the two of them become such good friends before Wilt died, something about seeing the two warhorses joking at Rusell's birthday party was nice.