Big suited cards.limp,re-raise pre-flop)

Howdy all,

The game I play in regularly is a fairly loose, and mostly semi passive game. (although at times when the more skilled players bump heads it can get fairly aggressive). Usually there are 4-5 players to the turn for 1 raise. (40$ Pre-flop is norm) I have gotton in the habit of a call, re-raise with big suited cards. i.e.J-10s, q-10s,k-js etc. Here is one hand as an example. I am curious as to your opinons on making this play in a game like this, and if it is a play you would use frequently.


20-40 Holdem

I am in the cutoff w/ K-Js(Spades) the button is a Pretty good pro, who is quite agressive. 3 callers in front of me, and I glance left. I can see he is itching to raise. So I limp in front and he raises. (Btw anyone think I should muck here since I knew he was going to raise?)


All call to me and I make it 60 to go, he caps it and we see the flop with 5 players, and 400 in pre-flop. The flop comes prefect Q-10-9 wrapping me right around the nuts. The first early limper fires out into the pot.


I am now puzzled as what to do, he call a pre flop cap, and fires into it. Do I raise here? The pot is a decent pot, but I know the button is going to raise, He will play a gutshot draw here the same as a set, he is that type of guy, but I know he would not cap it without a set. So I decided to call,and try to raise him and see if He caps it, or just calls. (I am also curious what the early guy is up to)


As expected he raises, and the early postion calls (btw one preflop caller to my right folded and the other called we are now 4 ways.) I raise, and the button caps. I am now 99.9% that he has a set. Another 320 in on the flop and the pot is now 720. Quite large enough for me.


Another catch here is that I am almost now all-in. I have $100 in front of me. The turn is a brick 2 of clubs. I fire a bet into the pot. I have play quite a bit with the guy on the button, he knows if I fire into his cap, (who wouldn't) That I have him beat. He raises and the two early positions fold. I bet all in,and he calls.


I turn my hand over and say "I have the nuts, he says Then I have outs." (I thought he might.) The river brings the dreaded 10 of spades. And just like that I am stuck 2 racks.

I feel I played the hand pretty well, but I just don't know if there was any conciveable way I am winning this pot. All comments greatly appreciated.

9-9 for 9's full

yer not winning this pot, but ya have to pay it off. maybe not the river though, you made him pay max to see the river. nice play. btw ya didnt say if the board was rainbow or not. the other callers probably were drawing. im glad to see the other guy playin his set fast, since many people tend to check to the turn on a board like this. which in my opinion is a mistake since the preflop action and the board has possible draws...


nice play by both...


b

Some thoughts:


-I don't think it's a great habit to be call/reraising with "big suited cards, i.e., J-Ts, Q-Ts, K-Js," especially from deep position when they're all already in for 2 bets. Up front, if the game is passive, I limp with them, if not, I fold 'em. I'd want to mix in some call-reraises with big pocket pairs if this was my strategy. K-J, suited or not, is a drawing hand with that many players in, and I'd want to see the flop as cheaply as possible.


-"I glance left" This is always good, especially in the cut-off and small blind. I think I'd either fold, or raise myself here. Maybe if you raise, he soups and you've bought the button, although you said he's aggressive, so this weighs down on the fold side. Since you planned to 3-bet yourself, you're no worse or better off than you planned to be by limp-reraising. I wouldn't have 3-bet here.


-"The flop comes prefect Q-10-9" From this point on, I bet and raise as often as possible. But you can't win. The set is staying in until the river. Once you committed to playing pre-flop, you lose all your money (as does anyone else playing this hand).


-"just like that I am stuck 2 racks" I count you losing $260 on this hand, so it couldn't have been "just like that," but that's beside the point. The river card was indeed "dreaded", but one of the problems in a capped flop with a hand like K-J is that it can easily make a 2nd best hand in a number of ways.


Any time you flop the nuts, or I should say, what is the nuts on the flop, and get beat, you're going to lose a bunch of chips.

Win or loss, you played it well. You couldnt play it any other way and expect to win in the long run.

If you dont play/raise big suited cards in the cutoff IMHO, youre playing ultra conservative esp. with 4-5 players already in. To me its a great opportunity to jam the pot and win the max when the flop hits you. When that happens, your "drawing hand" becomes a made hand and the rest are all drawing to you. Doing it any other way youll be playing "weak-tight".

I would definitely go for a check raise on the turn if you are certain the button has a set. No way is he checking a set behind you here, so this seems an ideal situation to put the early position players on the installment plan for 2 bets. Sometimes this will let one of them catch a gutshot to chop the pot with you (or even beat you with an AJ, but at least AK seems unlikely from the preflop action), but in the long run you shouldn't mind a gutshot tagging along here for 2 big bets (especially if both players have the same gutshot), and you may also catch them drawing dead. By the way, I doubt the button knew he was beat when you bet the turn into his flop cap, otherwise why would he raise? (He could have been in denial, I suppose. /images/wink.gif)