AQs against a tight aggressive

[cjs]

Did not like the way I played this hand. Opponent was tight (20% VP$IP) and aggressive.

TGC .5/1 NL

Preflop: folded to MP1 who bets $4, folded to hero in LP1 with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif, who calls, everyone else folds

Flop: J /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

MP1 bets $9 and hero calls

turn: 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

MP1 bets $10 and hero folds.

After the hand I felt like he pushed me off my hand. Any comments appreciated.

cjs

[Navers]

raise on the flop, you have TPTK and his preflop raise doesn't necessarily mean he'll have to hit on the flop. He could have had a variety of hands, including lower pocket pairs. He's just being aggressive.

[TStoneMBD]

i disagree with the last post. if this player is a bluffer than calling here is perfectly fine. just call him down to the river. i disagree with folding the turn here, thats just weak tight.

[Gunsmoke]

You bottled it.

[Gunsmoke]

If you dont like A Q then why didn't you fold it before the flop?

You have now hit top pair and you STILL fold!

Get some balls.

[Gunsmoke]

Was you hoping for K /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ??

....You'll be waiting for a while friend.

[cjs]

Is this a board you want to be all in with? I felt that was where it was going and if I showed enough strength to call 2 nice sized bets he had to give me credit for something. Yet he still makes a large bet on the turn. What are the chances of him holding a large PP?

cjs

[Gunsmoke]

220-1.

[bingledork]

I don't understand why you called the flop and then folded to a blank on the turn. You got the flop you wanted, no?
I'd call it down.

[Gunsmoke]

Exactly. How did that 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif change anything? That was a really bad pass.

[fsuplayer]

If you were planning to fold when you hit the perfect flop for your hand, then save the $4 preflop and fold. I dont know whether I would play AQs against a TA's raise heads up anyways.
Just decide before the flop what your plan is if you hit a queen, if you hit an ace etc.

In the hand, I think raising here is bad. He will fold anything you beat(KQ which is unlikely, or AK) and not fold anything that beats you (AA, KK, QQ, JJ).
Just let him bluff off his money.

FsuPlayer

[fsuplayer]

Cis-
BTW I play the 6 Max games now, but I used to play primarly the Party $50 and $100 full ring games. In these games, particularly the $100, I would routinely fold AQ to most raises. Unless the raiser was too LAG, or if one or two others called, then I would call with AQs.

No shame in folding AQ, it can be a trap hand.

fsuplayer

[Zag]

I can't believe that no one has yet chided you about not including stack sizes. I think they make all the difference in this case.

If your stack (and his) was, say $45 (45 BBs) then you should be happy about getting all your money in with TPTK. On the other hand, if your stack was $130, then you don't want to get that deep with just TPTK, because you will only get that deep if you are behind.

With the shallow stacks, just call the flop, then raise all in on the turn.

With the deeper stacks, raise on the flop. If he reraises then you are gone. If he just calls and checks to you on the turn, then check behind, and call his river bet a game-theory correct amount of the time. Finally, if he calls your flop raise and then bets out on the turn, you are in a quandry. I think you probably fold, but I'm not sure.

With just the information you gave, I put him on AK who felt pretty good about semi-bluffing the flop, and then felt not so good on the turn. Note that his turn bet is a lot smaller, relative to the pot size, than his flop bet. In other words, my guess is that you weak-tighted your way out of $26.

I do think that fsuplayer has it right -- if you weren't at least going to show some aggression when you get TPTK, then fold your AQ preflop. Against a tight-aggressive player, this isn't a terrible play. If he would only raise preflop with AA-QQ and AK, then it is an easy fold -- every one of those hands has you dominated. Even if we add in AQ, JJ, and TT, then you have a pretty easy fold. We have to include AJ, AT, KQs, and 99 before you have a clear call. Unless his 20% are almost all raises, you probably can't include those, because those would have been calls.

[cjs]

Mp stack was large - over $200.
My stack was lower - $110

[Zag]

So, obviously, it is only the smaller of the two stacks that matters, but at 110 BBs, you are still playing "big-bet poker," which takes a lot more skill than playing a shallow stack. I think you should have played it as I described for the deeper stacks, with a raise on the flop.

Here is the reason the stack size is so important: Assuming 3 to the flop, and heads up play after the flop.

Preflop: one raise to 4 BBs, so the pot is 12 BBs.

On the flop, one bet would be about 10 BBs, so a raise is up to about 30-40 BBs. Therefore, with the short stacks, this means all in. With the tall stacks, if this is called, it leaves the pot at 85 BBs or so. If each person started with 120+, then there is still a pot-sized raise (a "tempo") left.

The toughest stack to play (IMHO) is right around 75-90 BB stack because the bet and raise on the flop leaves you very nearly pot-committed, but is still enough money that don't really want to put it behind TPTK. This takes away your ability to make a raise on the flop and still get away from your hand, which means you can't make the raise in the first place. This has ramifications all the way back to the preflop play: If you aren't willing to make a raise with TPTK, then don't play hands like AQ or AK for a raise preflop, because TPTK is what you are hoping to make with those.

At 110 BBs, I would be willing to say that you stretch into this difficult range. It would definitely hurt to put in 40 BB and then fold. But then you have got to fold this preflop.

And people try to say that limit poker is actually more complicated.

[ClimbRock512]

Gunsmoke, you are a new poster, 20 posts to far. Glad to see new posters, I'm new myself. I'm more of a lurker than a poster, so my number of posts don't show how much time I really spend here. Anyways, you post advice for people who are asking for help, but you are very sarcastic and bitter. You act as if you are some expert and they are obviously stupid for ever considering such a play. I don't think this is appreciated by those player who know they have made a mistake and are asking for help. You then make posts like the above. One line posts as if "How could you be so stupid" when is actuality, you are the one entirely wrong. 220:1 is the odds of you being dealt a particular pocket pair. When there are 9 players and 13 pairs, the odds of someone having a pocket pair are now much greater. The odds of having an overpair are different still. When you factor in someones play, you can make some assumptions about the types of hand they could possibly have. This again changes the odds of them having an overpair. Maybe before you act like you know it all, you should try to know something first.

[AlekzanderZ]

I would probably raised him on the flop, he could have AK or a small pocket pair. I dont understand why you called him on the flop and folded on the turn!!

alekzanderz

[t_petrosian]

On the flop, come over him and bash him in the head with a baseball bat. If he comes back over the top of you, he's got you beat. If he calls, he probably won't bet on the next round - but beware here anyway.

Nonetheless, with top pair, top kicker, you are looking bad to AA and KK...everything else reasonable (well, except for QQ) you are doing ok.

Yes...he did push you off your hand. He was the preflop raiser, so he knows he must raise on the flop or you will jump all over him. Also, did it occur to you that he bet $10 into a $27.50 pot?! If the guy holds AA or KK, I think he's making a mistake here not protecting his hand by betting this little % of the pot. With nearly 4 to 1 pot odds on your $10 call, it seems a no brainer with TPTK...Still, you may come back over him here and steal the pot. You can't be a wimp if you play nl...

[t_petrosian]

110-1, actually (AA and KK)

[Manimal]

110.5:1, actually /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Justin A]

His turn bet was not nice sized. $10 into a $26 pot is rather small. It reaks of weakness and you had the best hand.

Justin A

[ClimbRock512]

I don't know why you guys are even arguing this point.

A. Who cares?

B. You are figuring the odds of that player being dealt AA or KK without any other information. This is useless.

C. If you want to find the odds of him having something, you have to consider everything about the betting, cards out, and player(that is the point of poker I do believe)

D. If you want to find the odds of him having AA or KK at this point, you'd have to factor in the cards in your hand, the cards on the flop, and the turn. This still gives you no useful information.

Hopefully this sucessfully kills the point.