Finding a Fold with Top Set

[Barry]

Typical Party 15/30

I raise UTG with black A's

button calls, both blinds call.

Flop is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to me, I bet, button folds, SB calls, BB checkraises, I 3-bet, SB and BB call.

Turn is A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Checked to me, I bet, SB checkraises, BB makes it 3-bets.

Action to me, I....?

[Dynasty]

Why are you even looking?

[DcifrThs]

you call or reraise but DO NOT FOLD. repeat: DO NOT FOLD...

the bb could be on the KT draw but i think he's got whatever he had on the flop. looks like a set or QJ. you gotta call, if you make a boat, even better but this is seeing a showdown.

take off, cruising altitude, and now for a smoooooth landing on the river.

-Barron

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you even looking?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, yea...do you "find" a fold like that, or do you go looking for it /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Barron

[nef]

If they could have sets or two pair here you are way, way, way ahead. If you are against a straight and a set out you have 7 outs vs. the straight and the set is basically like dead money for you. You are getting pot odds of about 14.5:2 here. Your odds in the worst case (vs KT and 33 or any set) are 35:7 or about 5:1. Even if it gets capped you will have 17.5:3 which is better than 5:1.

Basically never ever fold top set on the turn in limit hold'em.

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you even looking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll go with the minority and say dump it. What the hell, Barry might really need the sixty bucks, I mean what if the board doesn't pair? That would suck, man.

[China Willy]

I would let it go. I mean, at Party, you can't show your hand if you lay it down. If it were another site where you could show your laydown after you "find" it, then you want to do so on the river. But you can't put in two big bets here. You're assuredly beat and the pot is small and you don't really have any outs.

-CW

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
and the pot is small and you don't really have any outs.


[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding right? I really hope you are joking.


Barry, call and prey for the river to pair. I am not folding this, ever. You have too many outs in a huge pot and could collect a couple of river bets from each of them if you hit.

hope you didnt fold and I hope you won.

fsuplayer

[Barry]

Of course I didn't fold gettting 5:1 to make a full house even if it gets capped behind me.

I was really wondering if a call or a raise was in order. I called in order to see what the SB was going to do. He capped it.

River was a 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bet, BB raised, action to me, who calls now?

[Nightwish]

Seems likely that you're second best, but there are 23.5 BB in the pot! You need to be really sure that one of them really has KT and you're not up against AQ and JJ. I would call and pray.

[nepenthe]

Without even reading the other answers, my response would be a call at minimum, and perhaps a cap. SB might have a straight, BB could have a crappy 2 pair, or one of them could have a set of 3's. The pot is too big and you have too many potential outs if you're behind. Folding is utterly out of the question here.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course I didn't fold gettting 5:1 to make a full house even if it gets capped behind me.

I was really wondering if a call or a raise was in order. I called in order to see what the SB was going to do. He capped it.

River was a 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bet, BB raised, action to me, who calls now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I cry and call. I'm not folding top set in this pot. If the sb 3 bets and the bb caps i'll fold.

[NLfool]

we need more info on both players. I've played with many who were aggressive but also sensible which on party subjective. I go minority and if 1 of them is pretty sensible I'm leaning fold.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical Party 15/30

[/ QUOTE ]

I would make this fold 0% of the time.

[Sqred]

A fold is never in order here. Anyone who can count knows it is a call. I dislike a turn raise because A str8 is always taking it to the max and your simply cutting down your own odds. If the turn had made a possible flush rather than a sr8 I like the raise. It is going to get you a free showdown a lot in this situation if the Nut flush is out there or not.

[TXTiger]

I'll put another vote in for calling the turn and the river.

[Clarkmeister]

The Mannequin speaketh truly!

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
you call or reraise but DO NOT FOLD. repeat: DO NOT FOLD...

the bb could be on the KT draw but i think he's got whatever he had on the flop. looks like a set or QJ. you gotta call, if you make a boat, even better but this is seeing a showdown.

take off, cruising altitude, and now for a smoooooth landing on the river.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Barron,

for some reason i agree with you /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

KEnny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course I didn't fold gettting 5:1 to make a full house even if it gets capped behind me.

I was really wondering if a call or a raise was in order. I called in order to see what the SB was going to do. He capped it.

River was a 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bet, BB raised, action to me, who calls now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I cry and call. I'm not folding top set in this pot. If the sb 3 bets and the bb caps i'll fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

barry,

i believe it's a fold here on the river. when not sure, ask yourself this question: would either of them (SB, BB) play a 2 pair this way? (highly unlikely) would either of them play a set this way? (unlikely) what are the chances of both of them playing a set or worse this way? (very highly improbable).

your decision can then be based on how improbable it is for both of them to have set or worse. factor in the price you are getting ...

now, i just convinced myself that calling isn't that bad, hehehehe. but i'd still fold most likely.

Kenny

[nykenny]

maybe i wrong. if they have QQ and JJ repectively... it'd probably played out the same way... hmmm

call if the pot is big enough /images/graemlins/wink.gif

maybe i am the only person on 2+2 posting two opposing opinions about one hand, hahaha

[Mackie]

I doubt even Tommy A would fold here.

Raise.

[Barry]

OK, now that I'm back on the ground in Vegas.

I called the 2 cold, SB 3 bet, BB capped. Oh well, let's make it another 60. Both SB and BB show KT for broadway.

I wanted to get away from this hand but found that I just couldn't. I guess not many of you could either.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, now that I'm back on the ground in Vegas.

I called the 2 cold, SB 3 bet, BB capped. Oh well, let's make it another 60. Both SB and BB show KT for broadway.

I wanted to get away from this hand but found that I just couldn't. I guess not many of you could either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I did say that i would fold if it was 3 bet and capped back to me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I guess I woulda saved 60 bucks hehe /images/graemlins/wink.gif

bummer, dude.

[surfdoc]

I had a hand just like this last night. Today a strange thing happened. I see my next door neighboor outside who asks me, "what does pair the board mean?"