Put them on a hand you can beat and call

Here are 2 hands I misplayed last night in a private 25-50 game.


1.) A loose/passive player limps utg, next guy folds, I raise with KK, button, both blinds, and the limper call. Everyone else folds. The flop comes Jh 7h 7d. I have the Kh. Blinds check, utg bets, I raise, button and blinds fold, utg calls. Turn is Jd. Utg bets, I call. River is Js. Utg bets, I call. He shows me JT offsuit and takes the pot. Given that this player is not tricky, I think I could have safely folded the turn.


2.) I am in bb with Kh Kd. Utg raises, next guy reraises, middle position player calls, button calls, sb calls, I just call. 6 players for 3 bets each. Flop is 7 5 5 with two spades. I check, utg bets, next guy calls, button calls, I call. 4 players and 11 big bets in the pot. Turn is 7d. I check, utg bets, next guy folds, button (the same non-tricky player from the hand above) raises, I quickly try to convince myself that he could have an overpair smaller than my kings and call the $100 cold, utg folds. River is Jc. I check, button bets, I call. He shows me 8h 7h -- sevens full, and takes a huge pot. I am sure that some people will read this and question why I did not play my hand more aggressively before the flop or on the flop. I could have made it 4 bets before the flop. I could have bet the flop, hoping utg would raise, but anyone with any pair or draw was going to call, and they would be correct to do so. The real question is, should I have folded on the turn? It is pretty hard to put a guy on a seven when he has called 3 bets cold pre-flop, but as I said before, this gut is loose/passive, and not very tricky. So, what else could he have when he raises the turn?

you should checkraise/3bet the flop on hand 2 for value with all those players in. betting out so you can 3 bet it is also a good play here.


you knew the right times to fold in both cases, but convinced yourself to pay off. i dont know how to teach you to find the discipline to make these correct laydowns as it's something i struggle with myself.

Hand No. 1, a fold is correct only if the dude is not tricky.


Hand No. 2, while it is true that no one will fold for 2 bets if you bet and UTG raises, the fact of the matter is that your position is such that you are unlikely to get an opportunity to raise a bet from your right on the turn to try and limit the field i.e. to clear out everyone other than the players with major draws who clearly are not gonna go anywhere. That being the case, you need to switch your line of thinking and try and determine how you can get more money into the pot and at the same time try and somehow limit the field. The best way to do that would be to bet the flop, have UTG raise and then when the gaggle call, you too should just smoothcall.


If a blank comes on the turn, you should then bet again. If UTG raises, that should help clear the riffraff and at the same time, give you an opportunity to 3 bet and make the pot bigger.


Also, betting the flop would make your read of the other players (other than UTG) easier on the turn i.e. if they call or raise the UTG bet, you would not learn as much about their hands as you would if they coldcall UTG's raise or 3 bet him or whatever.


As for the actual turn play...well, you are probably dust but the problem is that you can't be sure unless you know the player well. On the other hand, if you had bet the flop, UTG raised and this dude coldcalled and then he raised the turn...well, then you can be pretty sure he's got the 7.


Another play on the turn given your flop play is for you to bet. Since you have just called all along, you could sell the idea that you have a 7. Then, if someone raises, you can be pretty confident that he must have the 7. You then call or fold depending on whether you have the requisite pot odds to snag your 2 outer (I am too lazy to count the pot).


Loose games...gawd..I love 'em.

Given the board of 755, I think some players might fold a 7, unless the hand an ace kicker. This is because, unless they are fools, they realize they have only 2 outs. If you bet out and UTG raises, this may have caused a fold from a 7. Given that the pot is large, this is a good thing (to force out the 2 outers with a bet and UTG's flop raise).


Just something to consider, it may not apply to this player.


I agree that if you know the player won't bluff, both payoffs were needless. But you knew that already. Just be careful if you start laying down here against him that he and others don't change their haibts against you.


Dan Z.

The first hand is a little tougher. The second one I would have folded, given your description of the player. You could have made it easier on yourself by showing a lot of early strength (cap preflop and fire out). If it goes you bet, UTG raises and you get cold callers or three bettors behind on the flop, alarms should go off. If you show all that strength and STILL get raised on the turn, you should be able to fold and sleep well at night.