When to cash the "no free cards" voucher

This is a fairly common situation. I raise on the button with QQ, black. There are 4 limpers in front of me, and the BB calls. We see the flop 6 handed.


Flop: Ad Th 5h.


Checked to me, and I check. I figure with 6 people seeing the flop, SOMEBODY has got an ace. I feel that this is a routine check here. Two of my opponents love to checkraise, and two of them would check-call the whole way with any ace here. The fifth, I'm not so sure about. I'm drawing to one, maybe two outs. I figure by checking, I can check/call the turn, unless its two bets to me, then I can lay it down very very very easily.


Turn is 7h:


Board: Ad Th 5h; 7h.


Hmmm, the hearts just got there, as well as the Ace, and I don't have the Qh. Bother.


But wait, its checked to me again. I check, again. I'm fairly sure that this is where I made the mistake, and I should have fired out a bet here, right?


River, 2d.


Board: Ad Th 5h; 7h; 2d.


Checked to middle position limper who bets, I call, all else fold. He turns over 2s2c for a rivered set. I think its obvious that he folds on the turn to a bet, but is this results oriented. When it got checked to me on the turn, I was still a little concerned that one of the passive players may have had an ace, but didn't bet it for fear of the flush.


Comments? Thanks,


Worm

I think a flop bet is mandatory here. Whether or not to bet the turn is up to you. One way I sometimes play in your situation is to bet the flop, check the turn and then call on the river. I think this is a reasonable situation to use the "cheap card play".

i would bet the turn.


most would bet a flush by now(not expecting to be able to get a chk/rse), maybe an ace missed a check-raise and then got scared to bet by the flush hitting, but not likely.

Well, your bet on the turn would look goofy. Would you ever check a set on the button against 5 opponents when the flop has two Broadway cards and a flush draw? Would you ever check a flush draw on the button in this situation?


Probably not.


About the only good hand you could conceivably check on the turn would be AK/AQ (to pull off the Mason turn raise to limit the field) but your opponents are not gonna give you credit for holding such a hand. You become too vulnerable to a checkraise bluff from a player holding an inferior hand.


On the other hand, all of this may be reason enough to bet the turn so long as you are prepared to pay off the raise and call the river bet.


Ya...that's it IMO...bet it on the turn but do not fold to a raise unless you think the raiser is incapable of raising with a hand inferior to QQ.

Bet the flop for sure, usually bet the turn depending on the number of opponents, and your read on them. Check the river/call one bet.


- Andrew

See, here's my problem...people are telling me to bet the flop when there is a 90% chance I'm beat(maybe even higher). Yeah, I understand that I can check the turn, but what about a checkraise on the flop? Call and hope to spike the 2-outer?


If I have the Qh, I think a turn bet is mandatory. I am beginning to think that I should have bet the turn, and that would be the last money I put in the pot (barring the Qd on the river).


So, my new question is, to those of you who bet the flop, what do you do to a checkraise?


Thanks for the responses...


Worm

Interesting post. In my view, you played well on every street, for the reasons you gave. Too much of a chance you were beat, too much of a chance you'd get checkraised (both on the flop and the turn). On the river you have to call to pick off a bluff (you might even consider raising here).


In this situation, I've played aggressively in the past and I think it has cost me.


On the flop, your opponents are expecting you to bet. They will fold if they have nothing (e.g. small pocket pair) but will at least call if they have you beat or if they have a flush draw.


The turn is a bit different because of the possible flush. If an early position player has the flush they might well check with the intention of raising. If one of the other limpers has a flush they would likely bet out. But if they have a pair of aces they won't fold for one bet. So when it's checked around to you on the turn there's still a good chance you're already beat. Plus, as SKP points out, it's a bad move to fold if you bet the turn and are checkraised (unless you have an excellent read on the checkraiser). He could well be check-raise bluffing or semibluffing with one big heart. But of course he might also have the flush, or top two. So you could easily be forced to put in two big bets on the turn when you are either drawing dead or drawing to two outs.


If you bet the flop and are raised, then perhaps you can fold - but not every time. If your opponents see you make this play a couple of times (raise preflop in late position, bet the flop, then fold on the flop when checkraised) it encourages them to make pure-bluff checkraises against you on the flop, which you don't want.


If you bet the flop and are raised, then usually you should call. Then when the flush card hits on the turn you can bet out - it looks like you might have a flush so some players will fold an ace. Unfortunately, anyone who happens to hold the ace of hearts will certainly call - and then they might call again on the river even if unimproved because of the pot odds.


In conclusion, I agree with the way you played it. There was only a moderate risk in giving free cards by checking the flop and the turn, and a good chance you were already beaten.


By the way, the analysis might be different if you had, say, two black 9s instead of two black queens. Recall that the flop was AT5 with two hearts. Here it might be worth betting either the flop or the turn with black 99 for three reasons: (a) anyone with a ten will likely lay it down, so the move has a decent chance of winning you the pot if you would otherwise lose it; (b) if someone raises you after you bet, you can lay down your hand rather than being forced to put more money in the pot, since even if the raiser is bluffing he probably has many outs over you; and (c) if you do hit your set it won't make anyone a straight, whereas when you hold QQ hitting your set gives a straight to someone holding KJ.


MBE.